Apple business practive needs change!

[Beja]

Recently we have discussed on this chit chat forum how Apple is doing business with developers.

Important note:
1- I totally agree that Apple has the right to charge developers for posting apps on its store for sale or for free.. or, like Google Play, can host the apps for free and then share the sale price. This is not the issue of this post.

The post subject is Apple's unfair practice, to say the least, when they force developers to submit their own apps intended for personal use of the developers, charge them $100 and then let them download it!!
Just imagine when you develop a Windows application for your own use, but you have to submit it to IBM
where they will check it (for you) and send it back to you and tell you that you can now install and use it, and charge you $100 for the quality assurance service that they provided to you, without you asking them for. They hired themselves your consultant and sold to you their time!, and to control the business, they locked the IBM computer in a way that any installation must check for installation license

 

[GKCS]

that's exactly how Apple works. If a customer ask me if I also support iOS devices for some given hardware, I tell them a strict "NO". At first glance they are a bit confused. But then, after talking a bit about Apple rules and restrictions, they normally agree, that Android devices are the better solution for their purpose.
I am NOT talking about the 99% of games, advertisement apps, ringtones and other useless apps you can find in the AppStore, I am also NOT talking about all the Facebook generation Kids who are happy with the new superduperMegascreentheme-app, I am talking about real industrial customers with a real demand for industrial usage. The ones, who recognice, that devices like Androids or iPhones are MUCH more than a stupid advertisement machine.
Such customers don't have the need for eyecatching gimmicks, they want something to run well without any compromise.

 

[ivan.tellez]

Well, thats the reason why apple sucks. But actually thats indeed their "bussines" model. Their software licenses are abusibe and restrictive as their hardware. Its stupid that you cant do what you want with a device you paid for, its like they want absolute control over you. according to them, if your battery dies, you have to buy a new device, its "yours" but they decide what you can install and how to install it.

Its really a shame the way those "Facebook generation Kids" are just driven by the trends and looks of a device.

Developing for ios in "b4i" sounds really interesting, except for the huge dealbreaker: Apple's absurd business practices

 

[CidTek]

Just because you may not like their policies does not make them unfair. Unfair implies you are entitled to something which unfortunately is a very common attitude amongst people nowadays. Yes they are harsh but that is their business model that they are entitled to enforce.

 

[thedesolatesoul]

See here: http://mobiledan.net/2012/03/02/5-options-for-distributing-ios-apps-to-a-limited-audience-legally/
Alternative: Jailbreak

 

[Beja]

@CidTek

Just because you may not like their policies does not make them unfair.

I really don't care about their policies until they touch on my rights as a consumer. When I buy an iPhone it becomes my property and it is lawfully mine and my private property. The app is developed by me, so the device is mine and the app is mine. Why should I pay Apple $100 to install my App in my device?
As I mentioned, the argument that this is their policy and I should not buy the phone in the first place is wrong.. you need to read about the legal system of the United States.. Since the product became common and a great sector of the people depend on it, then any attempt of the company to abuse its position in the market and tighten monopoly by technical ways will be considered blackmailing and extortion.

 

[CidTek]

@CidTek


I really don't care about their policies until they touch on my rights as a consumer. When I buy an iPhone it becomes my property and it is lawfully mine and my private property. The app is developed by me, so the device is mine and the app is mine. Why should I pay Apple $100 to install my App in my device?
As I mentioned, the argument that this is their policy and I should not buy the phone in the first place is wrong.. you need to read about the legal system of the United States.. Since the product became common and a great sector of the people depend on it, then any attempt of the company to abuse its position in the market and tighten monopoly by technical ways will be considered blackmailing and extortion.

I am amazed that the entire legal community and judiciary has overlooked this and clearly does not have your insight.

 

[thedesolatesoul]

I really don't care about their policies until they touch on my rights as a consumer. When I buy an iPhone it becomes my property and it is lawfully mine and my private property. The app is developed by me, so the device is mine and the app is mine. Why should I pay Apple $100 to install my App in my device?.

I wish it worked that way. It doesnt. The phone is physically your property, by all means smash it to the ground if you want. But the software on it is an IP, it is not your property.
The same way rooting (and running unsolicited softwre on their HW) on Android removes the manufacturers of any liability, so does jailbreaking and running your test apps. The fees of $100 will cover you for this.

 

[Beja]

I am amazed that the entire legal community and judiciary has overlooked this and clearly does not have your insight.

Well, the best bet is to direct this question to them..
Legal community is divided into two sectors:
1- The courts
2- Attorneys
Courts can not initiate a legal process.
Attorneys need someone to hire them.
None of them is a software developer, so they are not personally hurt or affected, so they can not claim they are plaintiff.

Only consumer protection agencies that can do something, but because the case here is the problem of a special professional
group and not the public, so they need someone to talk to them and explain to them.

 

[Beja]

But the software on it is an IP, it is not your property.

All software, including Windows and computers' firmware is licensed and the IP is never transferred, unless you acquire the IP.
We license Basic4Android, but Erel retains the IP, yet we are not required to submit our apps to Erel. Licensing means that you
can't modify the licensed material or resell it to others.. not more than that.

 

[thedesolatesoul]

All software, including Windows and computers' firmware is licensed and the IP is never transferred, unless you acquire the IP.
We license Basic4Android, but Erel retains the IP, yet we are not required to submit our apps to Erel. Licensing means that you
can't modify the licensed material or resell it to others.. not more than that.

That depends on the licensing agreement. All licenses are not equal.

 

[CidTek]

Licensing means that you
can't modify the licensed material or resell it to others.. not more than that.

Wrong... licensing means you agree to the terms of the license whatever they may be.

Your entire argument is based on some puffed up sense of rights to something which you think you are entitled to. If you insist on following this path in your argument may I suggest you take a lawyer friend out to lunch and then report back what an actual legally trained person says. Or perhaps let us know how your phone call to your congressman went that you mentioned in the other thread.

I am now done with this thread until an opinion from a real lawyer is posted.

 

[Beja]

That depends on the licensing agreement. A licenses are not equal.

As a developer I have no agreement with Apple.
As owner if iPhone, I am not prevented from writing an app and install it.
Not to mention that any agreement, even if you sign it, if it is illegal and against the law, then it is
considered null and void and has no legal effect.

 

[Beja]

I am now done with this thread until an opinion from a real lawyer is posted

Sorry but I am not doing your homework..
only practicing my right to freedom of thought. so I am fine!

 

[HotShoe]

Isn't it funny that Apple started out as a pirate company. The bad boys of the tech world that were striking a blow for the little guys. They fought for open access to technology and software (when it suited them).

Now they are one of the most proprietary and closed tech shops in the world. Funny how that works.

--- Jem

 

[NJDude]

What's also funny is that some members of this forum have been pesting Erel to develop B4i, several threads, lots of wishes and "+1" posts, now that he's working on it, people complain about it, Make up your minds people!!!

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

@CidTek
Since the product became common and a great sector of the people depend on it, then any attempt of the company to abuse its position in the market and tighten monopoly by technical ways will be considered blackmailing and extortion.

Excuse my uninvited entrance, but may I ask .... in what universe/galaxy is this valid?

Freedom of though and speech, sure. So let me exersize my own right on free thoughts and speech.

Ignorance of real world practices and legal matters, sometimes makes us justify the troll term whenever we expose ourselves in public. The real world is not our living room, or what we have build in our own small margined everyday reality.

Just my 2 cents. Over and out.

 

[Beja]

"+1" posts

That's why I emphasized in post one on this thread, that I am not against Apple fees for apps sold or even uploaded to their store, because I felt it is confusing. Also in this thread or the one that stemmed out from, I replied to a member and said b4i should continue, and said that because it is important tool, and because we will all upload our apps to the store to sell it there. I great new opportunity.

Please try to notice that this post, I say it again, is about Apple's practice of charging developers who just want to write apps for themselves, and not for sale. If I have an app for sale then the best place and service I can get is through Apple store, nothing is close to that, they will provide so many services, from promoting to reviewing and describing it.. and I also give them the right to set the standard of quality for apps sold in their shop.

On the other hand, if I wrote a small app for my kids, and someone told me to send it to them for approval for $100, then this is the bad and illegal practice I am writing against.

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

<being-sarcastic>

Lets start a petition again the $25 USD registration cost that Google charges every android developer https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/113468?hl=en and their unfair practices on excluding world regions https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/136758.

Should we also stop supporting b4a as well? ​

</being-sarcastic>

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

On the other hand, if I wrote a small app for my kids, and someone told me to send it to them for approval for $100, then this is the bad and illegal practice I am writing against.

No one forced you to write the app in xcode (apple). Write it in b4a (android) and you are done. Do not blame others (apple) for your own choices and ignorance of their policies and terms of use which you must first read before making any decisions especially business decisions.