Can you be successful creating apps with very unskilled coding?

You can thrown together some basic code, some copy/paste, a small amount of your own code and get an app to work on very few lines and terrible looking code and understanding of it.

Then I look at more skilled developers code and am usually wowed at how much code you seem to have written and how sophisticated it looks. Such a huge difference between my code and skilled code.

Yet with my simple and messy code I can make things work I think. Is it possible to be successful coding at this level. I imagine the biggest problem would be bugs and efficiency?

I guess that it depends on what you are building. Complicated solutions require more experience and skill.

I think that the real question is whether you can learn and become a good programmer, and the answer is yes. It requires efforts and motivation. Nothing more.

Erel said:

I think that the real question is whether you can learn and become a good programmer, and the answer is yes. It requires efforts and motivation. Nothing more.

Click to expand...

Nothing more?

Logic.
Intelligence.
Memory.
(English).

All of which I am increasingly lacking ?

LucaMs said:

Nothing more?

Logic.
Intelligence.
Memory.
(English).

All of which I am increasingly lacking ?

Click to expand...

All of which get more difficult as you get older.

You also need passion, to do this without enjoying it would be difficult.

The most important thing is, you have to learn the basics and not make the mistake like me, who wrote one bad application after another and has absolutely no idea what he is doing. The learning curve is gigantic, so don't make too big a project, you will see that every ~6 months you want to start the project from scratch because you have learned so much...

Is my experience report.

I seem to be one of the minority here; I don't consider code bad if it works and has been tested to be as bug free as possible. Elegance in coding comes with experience but code that is bullet-proof is better, IMO, than beautiful code. So don't worry if the code isn't pretty - just document it clearly so that if you do have to revisit it later the comments will remind you of just what you did. And take the time to test the [insert expletive of your choice] out of it. And not just to see if it works; test it to see if you can break it. Remember, the customer won't see the code, they'll see the product. If it satisfies their requirements and doesn't break then you've succeeded.

LucaMs said:

Nothing more?

Logic.
Intelligence.
Memory.
(English).

All of which I am increasingly lacking ?

Click to expand...

I disagree those are requirements. I also lacking all of these. ?
Everyone just need the effort to use the search function.

I am not a good coder. But I grab some part of code everywhere in this forum. I ask when I can't find nothing. The guys here are willing to help and I appreciate that.

After many years now to coding 2-3 easy app. I work on a big one for the last year and half. I have motivation and perseverance to learn everyday.

Rams007 said:

Yet with my simple and messy code I can make things work I think

Click to expand...

No worry, i believe every one ever stand at this point, including me for all the time. But yes - practice makes perfect, never stop to learn and set your target no matter how long you been practice, gradually it gets better and better

I am a perfect example of someone who has risen above my actual coding skills. I have always seen development tools as just that .... tools. Just like a master carpenter will be faster and more elegant in creating a gorgeous cabinet or whatever, an apprentice carpenter will likely be able to create the same thing. It will just take the apprentice longer with likely a few hurdles. All part of learning any skill !

I worked 1 year for a project that turned to be a waste of time, and I have one app that I have just addes some simle ugly code and now it brings me more money than expected so ...you do not have to be a strong programer to be succesfull.

Mark Turney said:

I am a perfect example of someone who has risen above my actual coding skills. I have always seen development tools as just that .... tools. Just like a master carpenter will be faster and more elegant in creating a gorgeous cabinet or whatever, an apprentice carpenter will likely be able to create the same thing. It will just take the apprentice longer with likely a few hurdles. All part of learning any skill !

Click to expand...

So would any apprentice sculptor, with passion, patience and time, be able to create this?

LucaMs said:

So would any apprentice sculptor, with passion, patience and time, be able to create this?



View attachment 100321

Click to expand...

Maybe it would be easier to 3D print it. So the right tool does the job. ?

Yes you can be successful. For example I earned a good amount of money with just copying and pasitng some codes I found in this forum years ago for a speedometer app, but later you have to improve it you can't leave it like that. You just need a good idea.

Erel said:

whether you can learn and become a good programmer

Click to expand...

Rams007 said:

Then I look at more skilled developers code and am usually wowed

Click to expand...

Best way to pick up the trade.

Any one who doesn't learn from others is dumb
Anyone who doesn't learn is dumber
Anyone who doesn't listen to @Erel is an . . . . .
And, then, there is the question : Are skilled developers good programmers, necessarily?

LucaMs said:

So would any apprentice sculptor, with passion, patience and time, be able to create this?

Click to expand...

YUP - after passion, patience and time - the apprentice IS a sculptor [the MasterSculptor handed all that lot to the apprentices to execute]

rabbitBUSH said:

YUP - after passion, patience and time - the apprentice IS a sculptor [the MasterSculptor handed all that lot to the apprentices to execute]

Click to expand...

Then, after about 40 years of apprenticeship, I am a mix of Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and Erel
??

Coding is like building a house, you have to have a vision (what to build) and you start gattering all elements you need, one by one, first assemble the easy ones, put them together and you get a complex one, at the end you have all together and a beatiful house.

LucaMs said:

So would any apprentice sculptor, with passion, patience and time, be able to create this?

Click to expand...

Not all apps / solutions need to be masterpieces.

BTW, think about Whatsapp which was sold to Facebook for 19 billion dollars. It is a complicated solution and of course that the scale matters, but the early versions were not too sophisticated. Still, it changed the way people communicate with each other so it was worth more than other huge companies.

What I'm trying to say is that an app that helps other people to do something ,is a useful app. Whether it is a complicated app or not is less important.

Erel said:

What I'm trying to say is that an app that helps other people to do something ,is a useful app. Whether it is a complicated app or not is less important.

Click to expand...

That's an excellent summary.

In addition I would say that I split programmers in two piles (this is obviously simplified, but probably enough for this thread):

1. The truly talented programmers that seem to understand things on a deeper, more intuitive level. Based on my (limited) knowledge of them I would say that I place people like Dennis Ritchie, Linus Torvalds, Andy Gavin (*) and Erel there. This is the small pile. These are the people pushing the boundaries.

2. The rest of the programmers achieve greatness through learning by trial and error, and applying a lot of willpower to push through the challenges. This is the big pile. These are the people that create the bulk of all software out there.

For what it's worth, I consider myself a great example of the last group - not overly talented, but I've mastered some skills over a lifetime of coding - yet I can't see myself being able to create anything like what the people in pile 1 can create. And that's fine too: I have no need to push the boundaries, I'm happy to just make awesome software.

(*) As for Andy Gavin, go watch this clip where he discusses how he crammed the game Crash Bandicoot into the limited memory of the original Playstation:

Edit: I see Erel reacted with amusement. I'm guessing that he's laughing at me for including him into the first pile. I will say that neither pile is binary, it's all a spectrum. I wouldn't consider Andy Gavin on the same level as Dennis Ritchie, for instance. But I still think it's correct to include Erel there. Like I said: These are the people pushing the boundaries. I'm reaping the benefits of the boundaries Erel is pushing; I just wouldn't be able to do what I do if I couldn't use B4X. I imagine there are many forum members that feel that way.