I love B4X. Is it lasting forever?

We just have to follow what our clients use and give solutions on it. Only then we get paid.

We have to use MS Win10, Win11 in spite of all negativity, as our clients use it.
We have to use Google Android in spite of all killed backward compatibility, as our clients use it.
We have to use Google GMail in spite of knowing it may be killed like Wave, as our clients use it.
We have to use Meta WhatsApp in spite of all privacy problem, as our clients use it.
...

We can not ask or request our clients to use something else. We did tried to push Linux once. Finally the clients won.

AnandGupta said:

We just have to follow what our clients use and give solutions on it. Only then we get paid.

We have to use MS Win10, Win11 in spite of all negativity, as our clients use it.
We have to use Google Android in spite of all killed backward compatibility, as our clients use it.
We have to use Google GMail in spite of knowing it may be killed like Wave, as our clients use it.
We have to use Meta WhatsApp in spite of all privacy problem, as our clients use it.
...

We can not ask or request our clients to use something else. We did tried to push Linux once. Finally the clients won.

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End-users are generally technically dumb. No insult intended to people in general, but it's the truth. People also are generally motivated by the easiest (IE - least painful) path. Couple ease with non-technical gullibility, and you get the first world consumer. Then add in a dash of slick sales pitches by huge companies with immense marketing budgets .... makes for easy sales of products that may not be the best solutions. Then finally comes the cancellation of those crummy products, as the masses realize they're crap .... big tech cancels said product and moves on to the next one .... always more suckers willing to buy the next garbage software product wrapped in a pretty box.

Mark Turney said:

always more suckers willing to buy the next garbage software product wrapped in a pretty box.

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And they have money to pay us poor programmers too. So they dictate.

AnandGupta said:

We did tried to push Linux once.

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Depends on how you want to realize your wish. I am always an “evangelist” of Linux and B4X. I am trying to build a POS system with B4X and push the product together on machine running Linux.

Well I disagree with some of your comments above.

AnandGupta said:

We have to use MS Win10, Win11 in spite of all negativity, as our clients use it.

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Well that's obvious for desktops solutions. But saying that I create bespoke ASP.Net solutions that work through any OS browser for clients.

AnandGupta said:

We have to use Google Android in spite of all killed backward compatibility,

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Who has to use Android, I know companies that only use iOS because of security issues and Apple has some US government back certificate for security that Google didn't have a few years ago (that may have changed by now). That why ALL pentagon, whitehouse etc issued mobile devices are iOS based, surely you noticed that.

AnandGupta said:

We have to use Google GMail in spite of knowing it may be killed like Wave, as our clients use it.

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Nope

AnandGupta said:

We have to use Meta WhatsApp in spite of all privacy problem, as our clients use it.

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I personally require my clients to send me any extra information to my business phone via Telegram or Signal and not WhatsApp. I have WhatsApp on my personal phone (Android) but not my business phone (iOS).

AnandGupta said:

We can not ask or request our clients to use something else.

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Yes you can, I do it successfully all the time. You have to give clients logical reasons to do something or else they MIGHT NOT comply.

Enjoy...

Erel said:

This valid question was asked many times in the last 17 years, since I first released basic4ppc.
During these 17 years, Microsoft, as an example, has killed so many tools that I can no longer count them.
Even Xamarin that was a huge purchase for Microsoft is being faded out.

The company size doesn't always matter. In many cases the opposite is actually true.
I hope to continue to develop B4X tools for many years to come.

Two more things:
1. B4A and B4J frameworks are open source which means that anyone can download the source code and modify it.
2. The experience that you, as a developer, gain while working with B4X is not limited to B4X. Over the years many developers have shifted from B4A to Java and vice versa.

Click to expand...

Five things on my mind:
1. Nothing lasts forever, so make the best use of the best option today. That IS B4X.
2. Erel has a right to protect his intellectual property and life work. So, to casually open-source critical elements of the codebase (e.g. the compilers) may not be easy or wise - for now.
3. Users have been very supportive of Erel and his company. We should continue to do so - for our benefits too!
4. Erel already appears very morally responsible and dedicated. So, I'd expect him to have solid fallback position to prevent the termination of his LEGACY in event of any disaster. Whether this will be a provision to auto open-source or do so after reaching a preset milestone or whatever is up to him. But all these will work only when the project becomes formidable and users have huge role to play in that.
5. I don't think selling to a big company is the way to go. Even xamarin seems to be going out of favour with it big name buyer. (What's the name of xamarin founder again?)

Peter Simpson said:

Yes you can, I do it successfully all the time.

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Only if you are one man industry.

Our company employs 100 staff all over the country and have more than 5000 clients including MNC and major state based.
Loosing a client has ripples effect of loosing pay from dealer, sales, marketing, developer, implementer etc.

Yes I do put my foot down to the client which directly deal with me, if I am not comfortable with the client's requirement.

AnandGupta said:

Only if you are one man industry.

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That's a bit disrespectful isn't it???

Well I think both you have right @AnandGupta and @Peter Simpson ...sometimes... is just option to select something (client) or it can be requirement...

But... when custom software is option... then all must pre said..

Peter Simpson said:

That's a bit disrespectful isn't it???

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No. If you think so, then I am sorry.
I only put my position verses clients. At the end of the day I have to support my family and also families of all staff who are dependent on my development. Many times, I have to take decision based on it, not on technology.

Erel said:

This valid question was asked many times in the last 17 years, since I first released basic4ppc.

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wow already 17 years? amazing how fast time past. if i think about it i am here since 2012 already 10 years. i was 31 when i discovered b4a. i have learned so much about coding, game making, servers, sql, ui, and many many other stuff that i was first exposed to them here in this forum.
b4x is perfect to get started with making apps for android, ios and desktop, fast and efficient. so in my opinion there is no doubt that b4x is a great tool to give it a try. there is no warranty that it will stay for ever as there is no warranty that we will wake up tomorrow or that android will stay forever.

I wanted to develop app for Android.

Background = can develop Win programs in *BASE etc. using DBF files.
Knowledge of JAVA = NIL
Knowledge of AS = NIL
Knowledge of SQL = NIL

"And you are thinking of making Android app ? WOW! What a dream !" (someone may say to me)
But they do not know that "When there is a will, there is a way" i.e. "When there is a dream there is B4X"

Bought B4A in 2015, in sale. Bought Lenovo mobile in 2016. Kept lurking the Forum. Trying samples and faltering.
Kept paying subscription to stay in Forum. GOD finally blessed me.
Now I have made app for our company with B4J server using DBF files !
First impression "Very Good". Now add this and this.

And the trick is, I am using XUI, B4XCodeKit and numerous samples from Forum, without sweating.
THANK YOU EREL ? and all Valued Members ?

The OP asked how they can tell their customers whether or not B4X will last forever.

In Post #8, Sandman emphasises the importance of that question and furthers the concerns of everyone that uses/recommends the B4X solution.

Unfortunatley, in Post #10, "aeric" stole the the thread and everyone went off course in answering him.

Sandman is 100% correct. As a professional, how can you use a tool that is developed and supported by a single person? What happens if that person is no longer avaialable, for any reason?

quadbock said:

how can you use a tool that is developed and supported by a single person? What happens if that person is no longer avaialable, for any reason?

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Then... what happen if a tool is developed just for one company? What happens if that company decides not to continue with the development/support of that tool?

@quadbock

Starting from the end: I think that Erel already somewhere said that has somewhere the source code...
But ofcourse that doesn't say anything because "logic" and "brain" is working different for every human.

The same thing already happen to me before some years - with a big project - I ve wrote - and when this question fall at the table from nowhere... they said me this... "if you die tomorrow who will continue that ?" - Well my reaction was to hit the table and said them "take it or leave it"... then i sit down and give them a good offer to bought the source code.... nobody cares-result was loosing customers... (and i was cheap.. was just x15 times the maintainance year subscription-in this point I can say that was no need paying anything if they didn;t want to have mantain... because already payed for custom app - one cost for ever) they said... hmmm... then after that got a "service" not a custom APP (already created for them and working for 3 years)... and they are paying every month the half-cost of a year... (is it better... well yes.. because it is costing more I think - and nothing belong to them... if one day wake up and their company not having money for the next month... will loose everything)

I said that little story... because... it has to do - only - with what do you want to do ? (i ve remembered an old microsoft ad - with ending today)
--------------------------

Let's talk about what you are giving and what you get...
Someone will say hey... b4a, b4j, b4r is free... no need nothing... I am gonna say... that... ofcourse they need pay.. they need time... and time is money ! But the time you need to spend is 1% ... and will get 100000% back... because using "BASIC-syntax" language
--------------------------

But hey can you compare it with JAVA... or C... or VB... ?
Why not ?.... what is missing ?
And in this point.. I must say that I was using VB6 (from vb3, and quickbasic) for many many many years...
And QuickBasic has nothing to do with VB6... yes the syntax was the same... but the logic changed.. so if we are talking for future - we must sure that the "environment" will change... now we are talking for android 13 and windows 11 ... and ubuntu 22 (? i think)... ventura os... but hey if they are gonna change a lot... may be the language-developing for them must change a lot too... and i am gonna say... that this will change all languages!!!..

remember VB6... and the next versions.. of vb .net... i am sure that the basic head programmer was changed... the whole logic changed...
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In B4X is very easy to create library... or class... so it can be extended quickly...
--------------------------

Am I fanatic with B4X.... well I think... I am..

Well I hope Erel continue to be healthy... as everyone here in forum... and make this tool more/much open... yes this "TOOL" can be better... but hey we are here... we all can help him... and I think Erel's mind is open too...

ps: I don't think that will have the opportunity to talk at Microsoft Head Programmers... so let's take advantage... as we can !

quadbock said:

As a professional, how can you use a tool that is developed and supported by a single person?

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So you mean to say, we should use "tool developed by a big company, say MS ?" and we can sleep well ?

Ahh.. I also thought so. I used FoxPro when MS bought it from a small company. I was earning well and sleeping well.
MS released version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ..... hey! what happened ? Alas MS killed FoxPro.
I had to begin again from scratch.

So you see, you can not be assure of a tool lasting your lifetime, developed by a single or big organization. Have faith in yourself and Erel. B4X is his baby.

quadbock said:

As a professional, how can you use a tool that is developed and supported by a single person?

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Speaking for myself, I use B4X professionally while at the same time being very worried and deeply conflicted about the situation.

On one hand, I'm able to provide a pretty damn awesome mobile app for my customers, which I'm not sure how I would achieve without B4X. For this I am so very, very grateful for Erel and Anywhere Software for providing a powerhouse solution which in many ways are as big and solid as an elephant.

On the other hand, I cannot help but see that the elephant is standing on one leg on a stool on slippery slope. At any moment the accident could happen, which would lead to a crash and an end to Anywhere Software.

I've posted my thoughts on what it would take to make me comfortable in #8. As it happens, I'm not Erels advisor and I doubt he puts much stock in my opinion on this topic*. I would appreciate if he did, but I will defend his right to decline to do so - it is his company after all.

A comment on the discussion itself: The whole topic doesn't get any help at all by the numerous forum members showering Erel with love and trust as soon as a chance is given. I've said it before and I say it again: This is not about not trusting Erels good intentions or will to run B4X until old age. This is only about the fact that nobody has full control over their own destiny, be it illness, accident or whatever. And what happens to B4X if the worst would happen to Erel?

* After all, the Internet is full of annoying and clueless people who feel they know how other people should do things

I think the real question is: what's changed after this?
Is the investor added any value to the B4X environment? Is he satisfied and willing to continue?
What's next?

Maybe someone may disagreed with me. Maybe 1 or 2, while 10 or 20 may agreed with me. Maybe 1 or 2 clients will ask what tools I use. Maybe 10 or 20 clients never bother to ask. Those who care to ask, never end up as the one who paying me. Why should I care? But I know, I believe, I am clear, what kind of tools to use. What I should build? How I should build? F*** the people or companies who laughed at me using BASIC-like language. I don't give a s***. If you don't like what I do, just pass. I don't mind. You can go ahead with React Native or Flutter. If one day something bad really happen to the founder of B4X, B4X will never die. I still can use B4J, B4A, B4i and B4R until whenever I like, unless whatever I can't think of stop me to do that. The software will never disappear. B4X is a programming language and it is a mature language. The language may stop evolving but we don't know what will happen in the future. Who knows, another genius appear and create another new programming language which is inspired by B4X. Just like B4X was inspired by BASIC, VB6 and other languages. Just like Basic4PPC was inspired and created.
Honestly, I have met clients who asked the same question. For me, they know nothing and just want to pretend they know something. A real story I can tell you, there was someone looking for partnership with me rejected me to use B4X ended up losing more than 20 grand to go for React Native and the whole project failed miserably.

aeric said:

If one day something bad really happen to the founder of B4X, B4X will never die.

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That's a strong statement. Do you have some facts to back it up, such as a detailed, public, written plan published by Anywhere Software? If so, I'd very much like to read it.

All I've seen is something to the effect of "I have a plan, don't worry about it", which isn't enough to make me stop worrying, I'm sorry to say.