Industry norms

canalrun

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Really interesting article! Thanks for pointing this out.

I think many people just don't realize the complexity involved in producing even a simple app – it can be a lot like building a house. The frame and roof go up in a couple of days, but finishing all the details takes several more months.

For software development, a huge advance has been the introduction of RAD development environments like B4X for boosting productivity and efficiency. I can remember switching from MS visual C to Delphi. What took weeks could be done in hours. The same when switching from Java and Eclipse to B4A for Android development.

Barry.
 
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Roycefer

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There's an old saw about software following an anti-Moore's Law. The logic goes that while hardware doubles in speed every 18 months according to Moore's Law, software bloats faster than that, meaning software will always be getting slower and slower in real terms. I think MS Office is trotted out as the prototypical example.

I think the same applies to software development. While RAD tools would seem to increase productivity, software bloat and mission creep increase faster.

Do those prices cited in the article square with what you've seen?
 

canalrun

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I think the times and rates are pretty close – maybe a little bit high.

It seems they are talking about having an app developed rather than for an independent developer. I would classify the apps I do as "very small". From start to finish, if you extrapolate downward from their numbers for "small", I think the time required is pretty close.

If I went out and hired a company to develop one of my apps, this is along the lines of time estimate I would expect.

When I take my car to the auto mechanic, the place charges $100 an hour for labor. Of course, the actual mechanic doesn't see this rate.

I'm in North America. If I were to hire a software development house to produce an app and they came back at $200 per hour I wouldn't choke.

Barry.
 

LucaMs

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I have noticed a certain contradiction in that article.

Given that it implies the development of a software by a single programmer, otherwise development times indicated do not make sense:

Simple app = 300 hours
min. charge per hour (Android) = India (min $8 - avg. $26)

Then a simple app, develop in India for $8/h, will cost: min. 300x8 = $2,400, avg. 300x26 = $7,800

"The cost varies... A small app costs $3,000-$8,000". Where? In India only.


Also, I don't believe there are 1.6 millions Android apps and 1.5 millions IOS apps; I think the gap is larger (and... where? In "official" markets only, I suppose).
 

LucaMs

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According with those data, I could ask $40/h. Small app 300 hours, then $ 12,000.

300 hours - 8 hours/day = 37.5 days - 22 working days/month = 1.7 months = 51 days

Total $ 7,000 / month = good salary... Wants someone hire me for just $7,000 / month? Thank you



No one would hire me. I could calculate more simply:
$40 x 8 x 22 = $7,040
 
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Roycefer

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I don't think $150-$200 is uncommon for freelance hot-shot Java developers in the US. And that's well within the range cited for Android development per-hour costs in North America.

Do you have trouble estimating how long a project will take?
 

udg

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@LucaMs : in your case, basing my assumption on your own comments in a few threads, the answer to the question "how long will the project take?" is: forever! eheh
Ok, you know I'm joking but you served this on a silver plate!
 

LucaMs

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Seriously, however, each project seems relatively simple, but when you start working on it, you always meet small or big obstacles that will slow you down.

In the case of my personal projects, you're right
 
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Roycefer

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No matter how generous I am when I make an estimate, the real amount of time it takes is always in the neighborhood of double the estimate. Even knowing this in advance doesn't help. I'll make an estimate and then double the estimate to get the "real" estimate. The final time ends up being 4x the original estimate (and twice the "real" estimate). I think there's an informal law of project management that states as much.

If you can write a program that accurately estimates how long a project will take, you'll cause a rip in the fabric of space-time.

I think development firms get around this by charging the exorbitant fees cited in that article.
 
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sorex

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@Roycefer : no kidding, I guess in Europe 75 euros ($85) is already much and that's for company employess.

freelancers or hobbyist usually charge less since they don't have the other expenses that companies have for their employees
(additional wage costs, meal vouchers, lease car ...)

also the scheme is pure guessing and doesn't make much sense to me.

a simple app wouldn't need 10 weeks for backend as it probably doesn't even have one
and why do they split up the app & front-end?
it's the same thing unless you give them a "backend" to edit their data but that still doesn't require 18 weeks.
(unless they slow things down to earn more in total)
 
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sorex

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another thing... the small customers I(/we) usually have don't like to waste much money since they don't have a budget for it.

it's like with websites.

people look it up and see "website for free" on silly services like Wix and then they think "when I can get one for free why would I pay $1000 for one?"

same applies for apps I guess. People think it's all done on a few days and don't have a clue about what it is all about.
 
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Roycefer

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Yes, and they also have little idea of what constitutes a hard computing problem: http://xkcd.com/1425/

I think if everyone was forced to take at least one semester of programming in high school, they'd have a better idea of the value of programming skills so that when they become adults trying to hire programmers, they'd know better than the client in that comic. In short, the entire public education system should be restructured so as to provide programmers with slightly less hassle.
 
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