Android Question Android L & Basic4Android & AOT

Osi · Jun 25, 2014

Please see: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/google-previews-next-version-of-android-codenamed-l-release/

Key paragraph ...

With ART, Google ships uncompiled code through the Play Store and compiles it at install time. ART uses AOT compiling, but it is compiled on the device, meaning it has much of the information JIT has about the hardware it is running on. This, combined with a modern, complete overhaul with a focus on speed, means that ART should be a lot faster than Dalvik. The only downside is longer install times and maybe a few incompatible apps from developers who didn't take advantage of the KitKat preview. We'll be sure to give L the full benchmark treatment as part of our review.

Will this affect B4A much? Especially since Kindle (and other devices that forked off of Android) does not have AOT?

Meaning, in order to support Android L, the source code is not compiled on our dev machine, but instead is compiled on the user's machine.

BTW: the SDK comes out tomorrow. YAY!

robotop · Jun 25, 2014

Hi, in my opinion this way to distribute applications is tailored for make a stronger dependance of the programmer from the google mainstream. It's another step to totally assume the control of all the programmable devices that are actually running in the world by the giant G monster. I remember the times of Windows CE and people saying that Microsoft was a monopolist. Respect to actual times, that were times of freedom...

Osi · Jun 25, 2014

There is another thing to consider as well.. With deployment on L, it is now far easy to get the source code to the apps since it is in pure source code form when it's transmitted to a user's device ...

At least, right now, criminals have to do a tiny amount of work .... with L? virtually no work.

robotop · Jun 25, 2014

But.. how can you intercept any additional "service" that compiler will automatically add to YOUR code, obviously optimized to send all user's relevant infos to the giant G obscure servers ?

Osi · Jun 25, 2014

What?

robotop · Jun 25, 2014

If the compiler is in the OS, then you source code will be "enhanced" with additional functions, that aren't in your code. Just like a virus automatically added by the OS. Do they supply the sources of such "on device" compiler ?

robotop · Jun 25, 2014

Sorry, pardon me for such paranoic opinions, may be all will work as people expects to.

Osi · Jun 25, 2014

From what I understand, is that you submit the app (basically, the uncompiled source code + assets + key) to the google store. The store keeps the app in that format. Then, when the device need a copy of the app, that info is sent over the network to the device. Then the device compiles the files and you have your app. Network communications is easily intercepted. Therefore, you can get the "App" in the source code + assets + key format, before it even touches the compiler.

Anyhow, we'll all see more with the SDK coming out in less than 9.5 hours.

robotop · Jun 25, 2014

Sorry, we speak different languages. You can read the source of an application (remember the "BASIC" times ?) but when that source file is compiled, and if the compiler sources are unavailable, may be that every "input form" you used in your "pretty clean program" will be directed to your procedures (as you expect), but also sent to a log file, that will be quietly and secretly transmitted on the internet at the first connection. Your data is important for monster G, it's the way they are using to control huge quantity of people. Ok, I will stop writing here. It's just an opinion.

thedesolatesoul · Jun 25, 2014

I dont know what you guys are talking about.
You do not upload any source files.
Android (and Java) compiles in two steps. One to byte-code which becomes your executable.
The JVM (in this case Dalvik or ART) compile the byte-code for the specific platform on run-time.
In the case of AOT/ART it is compiled at install time, so it runs faster but installs slower.

Osi · Jun 25, 2014

Hmm, that seems to be missing from the link. Do you happen to have a link handy on that?

aaronk · Jun 26, 2014

I thought in the Google I/O Keynote, they said we don't need to do anything or worry about it and just upload the APK and Android/Google takes care of it when the app gets installed.

Maybe I didn't understand what they where trying to tell us but got the impression that is what they where trying to tell us ?

Erel · Jun 26, 2014

See this thread about ART runtime: http://www.b4x.com/android/forum/threads/testing-the-new-art-runtime.35294/#content

bitstra · Jul 2, 2014

Hi all,

all my actual b4a projects are running fine(!) under Android L Preview on my Nexus 7 (2013)

But: Only response-MsgBoxes from Dialogs Library don't do it for now under Android L!

@Erel: What ca be done with dialogs Library in this case ??? - The MsgBox Subs, I've created with Dialogs-Library are easily ignored (not shown) at runtime I get automatically Negative_Response (without the dialog was shown...)
BTW: there seems nothing to be debugable - because the app simply runs straight forward...

@all: Are there alternative Classes for custom MsgBox-Dialogs around here(???) - which I could test with Android L...

regards

bitstra

Erel · Jul 2, 2014

B4A v3.82 will be released in the next few days and will fix the modal dialogs issue (which also affects debug mode).

bitstra · Jul 2, 2014

Erel said:
B4A v3.82 will be released in the next few days and will fix the modal dialogs issue (which also affects debug mode).

Erel!

Thank you for that Information AND for the great support on b4a - you are fast as always

Informatix · Jul 2, 2014

Erel said:
B4A v3.82 will be released in the next few days and will fix the modal dialogs issue (which also affects debug mode).

Could you give us more technical details? What did you have to fix to be compatible? What did they change?

Erel · Jul 2, 2014

Google has not yet released the source code of Android L. Once they will release it I will be able to say what has changed in regards to the handling of the internal message queue.

By doing some preliminary tests I was able to workaround this crash. This fix is a workaround. Once the source code is available the fix will be improved to imitate the new way that the message queue is handled.

bitstra · Jul 2, 2014

Source code for " L " (preview) is available (at least partial):

have a look here ->
Limited Android L Developer Preview Source Code Now Available, Support for Current Nexus Devices

Furthermore I'm sure, that we have to have focus on "Material Design Theme" of android L, so modal dialogs can be properly shown ?!

Erel · Jul 2, 2014

Now testing with Nexus 5 running Android L preview. Seems to work fine.

Android Question Android L & Basic4Android & AOT

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