Apple business practive needs change!

[Beja]

Hi Periklis,

Ignorance of real world practices and legal matters

The man after whom you were named, Periklis, said at the famous funeral speech.. that all Athenians are equal before the law, and that the ruling power is in the hands of not a chosen few but in the hands of all the people. (something to this effect). Now many ignorant people think, referring mainly to that speech, that ancient Athens is the mother of all democracies.. they didn't know that according the (real world practices) in Athens, women and slaves were not considered people!! and Greek philosophers were debating for decades whether women were humans or satans!!

Please add something to your real 2 cents and read my post carefully, then you will not find a place to talk about Android and B4A.

 

[thedesolatesoul]

I think I understand your point to some extent but I think still you are expecting too much.
What you are talking is about home-brew and that has always been a hacking business.
Much like Sony didnt allow Linux to be installed on the PS3 and took GeoHot to court. So if you buy a PS4 or Xbox, Sony and MS allow you to play games, not to write games and run them on it. This is true for all platforms like Palm, Amazon (non-Android) or most manufaturer's proprietary platforms.
Android is probably the first more open platform that allows you to develop that easily without going through hoops (even then you need to enable developer mode with that easter egg hack).
Apple is still hackable, you can jailbreak it and run what you want. They cant stop you from writing that little game, only make it harder to distribute it. From a consumer point of view (to whom Apple sell the phone), that is not what they want to happen. Think about the $100 as unlocking an extra feature that unlocks all the API and SDK for you to use.
Anyway, I dont think I have explained it properly, so apologies.

 

[GKCS]

Periklis, exactly what I already spot out in my initial postings. Everybody can do his own business as he like. but it is also my business whether I use or not.
Let Apple use their policys. Let me say

1. a strict "NOGO" for their products as long as they won't change
2. a strict "NOGO" for products like B4I or similar due to point 1.

I neither will us nor reccomend iOS based plattforms to any of my customers for commercial products.

So, let the kids enjoy their ringtones and earn money with sending them a "YO"

 

[thedesolatesoul]

So, let the kids enjoy their ringtones and earn money with sending them a "YO"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.justyo

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

Periklis, exactly what I already spot out in my initial postings. Everybody can do his own business as he like. but it is also my business whether I use or not.
Let Apple use their policys

Sure. The question is if the reasoning can be justified by a healthy human brain.

 

[RAJAN MBA]

@Beja
I agree with you that paying $99 for using our own app in our own mobile is unfair, that paying 299/yr for in-house app distribution ,forcing developers to use latest sdk for even upgrading old apps (which forces both consumers and developers eventually- when sdk upgrades are not usable- to buy new models of iOS devices) is even more unfair, but no one who matters cares.
Google, Microsoft, Adobe and other software giants have published their apps in Appstore. If they can’t fight Apple’s policies, we have zero chance.
Do you really believe that a legal system which allows patenting rectangle shape, which awards millions of dollars for infringing on basic gimmick like ‘rubber banding’ list view can help? No way. Forget about it.
Until there are millions of customers willing to stand in serpentine queues to buy iOS devices even in inclement weather, Apple will continue to do whatever pleases its shareholders.

 

[GKCS]

Honestly, the "Facebook Kids" are not my target customers. Mine come out of the industry, real business. And I guess, they can justify.

Again, maybe it is not clear until now. I neither speak against Apple nor their way how to do business. Apples way will work for many million users. But this "millions" are not my target. I talk about industrial customers with industrial needs.
And exactly for them, I can't recommend iOS based devices, because it is just the wrong plattform for their needs. For such customers it is just not reasonable, to buy a software from me, but let Apple finally decide if they can use or not. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

This is insane and hopeless. Not even a joke. I am out permanently.

 

[Beja]

One important thing some people here need to understand is: companies in the United States, today, are not free to do (everything) they want.. This is not Adam Smith economy.. that era is gone forever.. at least here. Once upon a time, some 20 years ago, yes companies did everything they wanted.. in the early nineties I paid $2.5 per minute to AT&T to access the Internet. The only organized and connected people where the big companies, and therefore they had voting power, which, in turn, means economic decision power. Today, and after the grassroots are connected and started to organize that we see a black man in the white house.. Obama was not elected by support from big corporations, but by the young and the students.. the man-in-the-street. So lawmakers are now listening to the ordinary people as they never did before. Today, US government is watching companies more closely, and will not hesitate to punish them if they violated the laws of anti-trust, discrimination of any kind, extortion, monopoly, unfair competition... etc. with zero tolerance.

Apple AppStore services is second to one, therefore I can't wait to register as a developer after feeling comfortable with B4i, So in the business side working with Apple is the right solution and I will happily pay them the 30% transaction fee per sale. I will work with them even if am able to install the Apps by myself. The purpose of this post is completely different from what some people understood.

@perikils
Now I have some clues why your parliament couldn't solve the economic crisis, if this is the way people there exchange views.

 

[RAJAN MBA]

All I would say is - Apple has not broken any law. There is nothing any body can do about it !

 

[RAJAN MBA]

Apples way will work for many million users. But this "millions" are not my target. I talk about industrial customers with industrial needs.
And exactly for them, I can't recommend iOS based devices, because it is just the wrong plattform for their needs..

Apple iOS has more Enterprise market share than Android because it is more secure than Android.
The iPhone is used in 97% of the Fortune 500, and 91% of the Global 500, and iPad is used in 98% of the Fortune 500 and 93% of the Global 500.
90% of tablet activations in corporations are iPads. And 95% of total app activations were on iOS. (Source:Business Insider)

 

[Beja]

Apple has not broken any law. There is nothing any body can do about it !

This looks like a military statement.. I hope we discuss the issues on the table because we spent time in typing it.

 

[RAJAN MBA]

Hi Beja
Hope you read comment #26 by me . There really is nothing anybody can do about it.

 

[Periklis Koutsogiannis]

@Beja Nice. You are attacking my ethnicity now. Your ways to exchange views is way worse than mine.

Now I am out for real and will let any delusional wanna-be marketeers draw the attention they need in their micro-cosmos.

Next time:

• I will send you some of my 500,000+ customers to explain what real word marketing means.
• Ask a lawyer when you decide to look like a fool in public and if you can't, just spend some time in Wikipedia.

I am not one of those who sit and listen to pure nonsense trying to communicate the basics. I say it loud and I do not hide behind words. Take it or leave it.

*sigh*

PS: The "congressman" part was the most laughable one.

 

[Erel]

iOS is much more controlled environment. There are many things that we can do in Android and cannot do in iOS.

Personally I think that trying to fight Apple policies is a waste of time. You need to understand the restrictions and challenges and decide whether you like to develop for iOS or not. No one is forced to develop iOS apps.

Allowing to develop iOS apps on Windows is a huge challenge. Apple could have easily added support for Windows however they didn't.
I hope that with B4i the development on Windows will be smooth as possible.

I believe that over time there will be a large demand for B4i. Companies who want to provide a mobile app to their customers will want developers to develop apps for both Android and iPhone. B4A and B4i combined offer much more than a tool for one specific platform. (and don't forget B4J which allows you to create powerful back ends servers).

BTW, don't get me wrong. I don't expect everyone to support B4i. If B4i can help you with your projects then it is great.

 

[Beja]

Nice. You are attacking my ethnicity now

hahaha.. young man, now you wake up and that's what I intended.. to take you away from unwarranted name calling, insulting and sarcastic comments.

But listen to this:
I am not a Greek, but I bet I know about Greece and the Greek contribution to humanity heritage in all aspects of life, more than you. And if
I were in your position then I would have more self confidence built on my heritage, history and position and never got furious.

 

[Beja]

BTW, don't get me wrong. I don't expect everyone to support B4i

I put it clear in the first post and many times thereafter, that I support b4i and I will be among the first to license it, if not te first.
For business apps it is the best.. the point I am talking about is completely different.

 

[Erel]

I was not writing it to anyone specifically.

 

[GKCS]

"iOS is much more controlled environment. There are many things that we can do in Android and cannot do in iOS. ... You need to understand the restrictions and challenges and decide whether you like to develop for iOS or not."

Erel got the point. And as a serious developer, it is also my duty to spot my customers to such points. Because many times, they MAY use iOS devices but they normally also neither thought deeply about the restrictions nor did they fully understand them.
And for many industrial usage, this restrictions are just not reasonable, with other words a "NoGo"

Again, I can't explain a customer, why he has to buy my software, pay me, BUT in worst case an external company (Apple) finally decides if he can install and use my software or just refuse or even delay an urgent update-fix.

And at the moment the only way to avoid such situations is just "not supporting iOS devices", idependent if you personally like the hardware or not.

 

[Informatix]

Hey guys, if we calmed down a little? We all know that Apple, Google, Microsoft and co, are not primarily motivated by the general interest or the freedom of choice. They are big companies and, as such, they aim to make money by all possible legal means. They try to find a balance between what's acceptable by the majority and what's not, so there will always be people on a side or on another (the 30% fee deducted on each sale in their store can be seen as an extorsion or as a contribution, for example, and they know that very well; they have a marketing department you know). In France and in most European countries, these companies evade taxes by well-known financial set-ups perfectly immoral but technically legal. Google pays very little tax in the U.S. too and domiciled everything that was important (copyrights, trademarks, patents) in its legal vehicle of Bermuda islands. Only the showcase is still American. So, to my eyes, Apple and Google are not very different.
I will not blame Beja for wanting to involve politics in this case because there are probably only politics that still have a chance to change things by law. I do not really see why we should dissuade him, although like many I think it's utopian and that the US government has no interest to go against its national companies (usually laws are made to support them, not to fight them). But the number of dreamers that really changed our world is countless. And it would be stupid to yell and quarrel because of a multinational company where none of us are working and whose we can very well boycott products.