just for discussion: Why B4X is not famous enough

GymReaper said:

Can this not be changed to B4X?

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Agree, if possible.

As the website is changed from basic4ppc to b4x, which obviously was easy I think. We also need to change all folder names at time of new installation at least, if possible.

Regards,

Anand

Erel said:

Making it easier for teachers and parents to use B4X for teaching is one of our goals.
You can see the first steps here: https://www.b4x.com/android/forum/threads/?‍?-?‍?-examples-for-teachers-algorithms.115894/
And coming soon: https://www.b4x.com/android/forum/t...library-for-teaching-kids-programming.116440/

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In a recent project I used a multicore processor named "Propeller" from Parallax Company, USA (http://www.parallax.com/). To my opinion an excellent piece of hardware with easy-to-use native language "Spin" that almost nobody knows. So ... powerful, but quite exotic ... Now they have added C++ IDE and blockly to step in to the mainstream student education.

From the beginning more than a decade ago Parallax has focussed on teaching and scholar education by offering hardware kits like balancing robot to widespread information and usage of their products to the next generation. IMO focussing on the next programmer generation is the way to go.

There is a web site in France called openclassroom.com
This site is the reference for beginners who want to start programming.
Dozens of lessons and tutorials are made in a rather childish tone especially made when you start from 0.
In 2019, this site was approved by the French state, as a reliable source and to validate official diplomas.
I think it would be wise to offer a beginner's course in this platform.
Moreover, the references concerning B4X in libraries are very low. It would have made publish a book "Build quick app with B4X android" in well-known computer pubishers (Eyrolles, O'Reilly).

Erel said:

BTW, B4X is growing quite nicely in the last couple of months, especially since B4A became free. Faster than I expected.
There are all kinds of indicators and naturally most of them are not published anywhere.

Take the number of online forum members for example. Ignore the guests.
All day long there are about 5 times more members in this forum compared to Xamarin forum.

There are many things to do to make B4X more popular. We are working on it and we need the community help. Help us spread the word about B4X.

You can also use the new MadeWithLove custom view (XUI Views):

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I will use it in my apps soon, about 5 apps with >1M install ( total 5M install)

Erel said:

Not sure that it is worth arguing however B4X is the name of the programming language used by the B4X tools.
It doesn't matter whether it is an acronym or not.

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if the name discussion is important, if it still needs to make a big impact I would call it B4 ++, but honestly I like B4X, the important thing is that we take the name of the IDE B4X, be a complete IDE, with a single language and capable of being always up to date with new technologies, changing the syntax only from to really necessary and getting out of the fad that today plagues the world of programming languages, having an IDE in this format is synonymous with a lower learning curve, and therefore, a lower cost in investments by companies and programmers.

if we compare with .net, we can't complete a project only with C#, there's always a subset to be used such as Xamarin, Xaml and etc, I really like it and prefer it like B4X, always taking the maximum possible use of the same code.

In my opinion the next move towards making b4x viral (after making it free "b4i") is to target other Operating systems.

I belive that making the IDE support Mac and Linux would easily double the user base. As too much people use Mac and too much developers use Linux.

In the long term I believe there is a need for up to date professional tutorials on YouTube that teaches development for new developers

Erel's personal efforts is great but surely not enough, this project would never survive with a one man show.

Regarding the name I would recommend changing it to some marketing term maybe something like "rapid development "

This would give a much better idea about the project and would also have a big impact on SEO as you will be targeting developers who are looking for rapid development methods and alternative to the official IDE

Devv said:

Erel's personal efforts is great but surely not enough, this project would never survive with a one man show.

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B4X is being developed for more than 11 years now. Many new development tools, by all kinds of companies, were created and later dropped during this period.

The real reason B4X is not famous enough is that those who use it don't want to share such a great advantage with others ! Those who have discovered B4X know how easy it is to make even complicated android apps with B4X so they don't want others to gain that advantage.

I think a good way to attract developers is an easy way to monetize their app. If there is a good advertising platform, easy to setup, easy to integrate into the B4X app and has many merchants support then it will help. Many platforms are too hassle and always changing their policy. Many apps in Google play store is free and ads is a way developer could earn some money.

In my opinion the bigger obstacle to B4X expansion and adoption it's the World Generic Mentality that has grown in the years around every kind of BASIC Language.
We know that B4X has a BASIC STYLE sintax but then under the hood it's something completely different.
But, my opinion, most Developers that has been trained to think that "BASIC is SPAGHETTI CODE" are hard to convert.
No matter that the compiled result it's an APK IDENTICAL to what Android Studio will produce.
For many developers used to other languages it's more easy to close the conversation with "IT'S BASIC".
After all I have to say that I met B4X exactly because of my VB background (just a personal, hobbystic passion about software developing) and because it was too chaotic for me to try to learn JAVA.
So the pool of people that can adopt B4X it's mainly:
- VB users (and similar)
- New Wanna Be Developer with nearly no skill in other languages
Only trying it for a while it's possible to understand the greatness of B4X Environment.
I started using B4A in serious way from version 6.80
Looking today at 10.90 it's a Cosmic Warp what we obtained in terms of new functionality.
But it's not easy to let others understand this.

My answer is: I really don't know!!! And don't understand.

I will try to think about it more, probably even searching the web for comments on the various existing languages.

Certainly B4X has many qualities that other languages, full of stuff that no one uses, dream of.

A few points:

1. B4X is growing, especially since B4A became free.
2. I cannot measure it, but I feel that the B4X ecosystem is maturing. There are more and more complex projects that solve real-world problems. Many of them are based on multiple B4X tools. There are also more libraries and frameworks.
3. There are many challenges in making B4X more popular. We all know that, while not perfect, B4X is very good and in many aspects it is better than more popular languages or tools.
The main challenge is to convince developers to give it a try. I don't think that there is a simple solution for this but rather it is a never-ending effort.
You, the B4X developers, can also help here. Naturally, when you promote B4X, it builds more trust than when Anywhere Software does it.

Erel said:

You, the B4X developers, can also help here. Naturally, when you promote B4X, it builds more trust than when Anywhere Software does it.

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I don't want to be negative and much less offend anyone but... I fear that a high percentage of B4X members are old VB6 programmers - who love it mainly for this reason - and therefore probably they are out of the world of work and unable to spread it, to do it try other developers.

LucaMs said:

I don't want to be negative and much less offend anyone but... I fear that a high percentage of B4X members are old VB6 programmers - who love it mainly for this reason - and therefore probably they are out of the world of work and unable to spread it, to do it try other developers.

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To give an example that has little to do with it, I have tried (but alone!) to get into the minds of Italian football commentators (football is already quite widespread, right?) that they make some great conceptual-technical errors and also of pronunciation, during their commentary, but without success (if you heard how they pronounce "turn over"...!).

Today influencers exist, but you have to be a beautiful girl like Ferragni, promoting a completely different type of product.

Returning to the fact of being outside the world of work... we could all try one thing: look for programming videos on Youtube, the most viewed, and comment on them suggesting to try to use B4X. This might work (I hope). Let me know if you did and where.

LucaMs said:

we could all try one thing: look for programming videos on Youtube, the most viewed, and comment on them suggesting to try to use B4X. This might work (I hope). Let me know if you did and where.

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Start from here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dev...IUKHUCyAxQQpwV6BAgBEDA&biw=1366&bih=635&dpr=1

and, as just written, add comments to the most viewed videos, promoting B4X.

B4X is a great tool. I have more than 20 languages in my pocket including b4x: from oldies lisp and ada to the very young languages which have not even reached ver 1.0. Why? Because I like languages. To me, they are like paintings. I don't discriminate any of them. When somebody, such as those in youtube says, one is better than the other, I don't believe them. There's no such thing. But to answer the question, I have two theories. First, it lacks of promotion & documentation. It seems we don't want to disclose our secret weapon huh? Second, it's not totally open source. Let me explain.

I am not a programmer by profession, I am a self learner. I learn programming without going to school for programming and nobody taught me. It's just book and internet and questions. Many years ago I decided to develop an accounting software which I declared to myself that it's gonna be a main contender among the existing commercial ones. I have a huge advantage because of my real profession. I know the system. When I was about to finish the software after more than one year of development, microsoft said it will no support vb6 because of the introduction of vb.net which is not really a vb7 which a lot of people thought so. To revise it for vb.net is not easy, it's better to write a new one than revising it for .net. My situation is the same as all other companies and individuals out there who relied on vb6.

Just like other vb6 developers, I searched for ways to survive my code. I searched for alternatives. I searched for all BASICs. Then, I found jabaco. Just like b4x, it is a BASIC language using java technology. It's good actually. The environment is like vb6, in fact, I can say better because it uses swing gui but the syntax is truly vb6. So, I spent time learning it. The learning was very easy, because it's almost vb6. A lot of vb6 programmers went for it. They thought their vb6 can be salvaged with lesser revision. But after sometime, the main developer or perhaps the only developer, abandoned it without words. Its installer for IDE currently is not even working anymore.

Since then, I learned other programming languages and hoping not to suffer the same experience again. And one of the primary criteria I consider is that it must be open sourced, totally open. If you are developing applications which you can finish in a month or two, it's not a big deal. But, if you are developing it for a year or so, it is. And I believe, my experience is the same as those out there who relied on vb6 which is so easy to use and develop faster, drag & drop, and without extra { } such as those in c/c++/java or (((()))))) in lisp. But easy of development, as I learned, is not the only issue or consideration. The support is another important matter. Thus, I would rather choose one which is complicated to use as long as it is well supported and exist perpetually and continuously evolved. After all, easy of use is perhaps a matter of experience.

I like b4x, the idea, the syntax, the easy of use, the technology, the forum, everything in it... but I am still wondering, if ever, if the applications that I will develop with it will just be nothing more but a hobby only, if one day, I can no longer revise it and my clients are complaining of bugs which I cannot fix because b4x development just stopped and I can't revise the source code of the compiler to fix it or hire somebody to do it for me or by other developers in the community. And I'm sure this the same concern of people out there which prevents them to go for b4x. I also, before I saw this question, had wondered, why b4j which is so wonderful is not popular. These are the two answers I can think of. The others include the logo and the name... perhaps it should be redesigned and renamed.

Hanz said:

And one of the primary criteria I consider is that it must be open sourced, totally open.

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I think, the 'main developer' Erel has already put all sources of B4X in git as open source.
Only ide, which is in .Net is not open source, but you can get all libraries, including core, in git.

What I believe is for the benefit of B4X and as a result for our benefit, is to spread the news. Let's form a consortium and Let's get all in a mindstorm on how we can make B4X well known to the programming public. I myself have given some thought on the fact that it is not completely open source and therefore supported by a community like Linux or Blender. Some times I think even about what @Hanz has discussed before (What will happen if @Erel desides to stop developing B4X or sells Anywhere Software). What would be the best thing to do would be to form 2 lists - one with pros and one with cons of B4X. Once we have the two lists ready we could think how to reduce or make disappear the effects of each con and how to increase the effects of each pro. Doing these things we can expand the base of programmers of B4X and thus give to @Erel and his investor a different option in approaching the whole project. Maybe with more programmers using B4X someone could assess the goals as some small reward from lots of people may lead to more revenue than some moderate/high reward from only a few. These mindstorms though do not happen with forum messages spreading in weeks but live with a Google Meet Let's say.

Basic Language is suffering from a real contestation ! Many new developers are taught that Basic is old and inefficient. If @Erel could consider also of a more modern syntax like C#, Python etc to be more attractive.