B4J Question [POLL] A B4J code builder for ABMaterial

[alwaysbusy]

I've been thinking of writing a code builder tool for ABMaterial in B4J. It would help to generate some of the code in B4J to add all the components and their themes. It will be a huge task to make, as ABMaterial has grown to a rather big framework. So please vote so I can see if it's worth spending the time at it.

Here is a video showing a proof of concept for e.g. the ABMButton.

 

[Cableguy]

If I had your code skils, I'd look into creating some kind of "ABM PageDesigner" tool...

Steps would be as logical as creating it in code, like names definition, grid creation and component placing.

The visual aspect of a page (at least for me) is the most challenging aspect of usage of the framework

 

[Harris]

The less code I (incorectly) type - the better. I am a one finger key pecker plucker...
The "trap" I found with code gens is when the user adds some "custom" stuff in the block. The code gen will typically over-write your carefully crafted custom stuff making you start over... If these blocks could be preserved well then - HELL YA!!!

@Cableguy has a point... Drop and Drop components.... Like the good old Delphi days...
However, being "responsive", I don't quite know how to accommodate all the issues that can arise with this. If it started with a desktop monitor - then let us work out the smaller sizes???

Right now, I use mostly grid and input forms - general crud stuff. Coding the grid is quite easy for me - modal forms - not so.
I will be trying out your latest creation this week for creating these items - since I am back North for two full weeks. Hope to get MAJOR work done this round - since D-Day is in April...

 

[narek adonts]

And would be vreat to also have a WYSIWYG designer ))

 

[inakigarm]

@Cableguy , @Harris and @narek adonts have said what I think too.

The framework is great but it needs a high learning curve (at least for me). It could be perfect if it had an ABM Designer Tool/WYSIWYG , like a series of templates for designing the pages/elements (even the whole website)

I suppose it can be a hard task to do it... (otherwise, one day I'd want to test the framework at full)

 

[narek adonts]

Check Ucraft.me
I think its doable

 

[alwaysbusy]

I feel you guys but I think a lot of you want to use ABMaterial to design websites, not webapps. And it is not made for this. If you want to build websites there are literally thousands of programs/online builders that will allow you to make what you want. (e.g. like the site demonstated in the post above).

ABMaterial was build to make great interfaces for B4J apps. Using all the power of B4X and having a nice interface that works on all devices.

For example, in my day job, we've now build an app that reads an Opticon scanner attached to a Raspberry pi. The user surfs to the pi, attaches its scanner and clicks a read button. This is impossible to do in a browser, but works great thanks to B4J. We read the scanner, send it over to our central server, process the new data and build reports, send a notification to the users browser that he can download a new pdf report, show a chart etc...

Another app we made is the CRM app for our sales people. They can lookup their tasks, make notes, lookup clients, prospects, show them in google maps etc...

In both cases ABMaterial is just the UI, B4J is the real engine. And by using my framework, it was done in a fraction of the time, saving thousands of hours not having to write the HTML, CSS, Javascript, tuning it for every device etc... I wrote both apps in 3 days, would have been 3 weeks without the ABMaterial/B4J combo.

I know it may be hard for some people to grasp the concepts I use in ABMaterial and I try to explain it to the best of my capacities, but believe me, writing the HTML, CSS and Javascript behind it manually is much, much harder. I too have to take a piece of paper, draw out how I want the interface to look, decide how the grid should react depending on the device and only then I start writing the B4J code to make it.

So in short, I will create 'helper' tools like this code-builder on the way and they may become more and more advanced in time, but I have no intention to write yet another Website builder (sorry).

 

[inakigarm]

Thanks Alain, I wasn't really clear with my post; when I talked about a website was something near to a MVC model, like Django w Phyton, CakePHP and so on. What I'm searching (and thing ABMaterial is the right way) was a framework like Bootstrap (but you've show that Materialize framework is also a great framework) integrated with the B4X capabilities (login capabilities, CRUD, charts online, encription, etc..)

So don't worry and continue with this great product with more helper tools !!

 

[Cableguy]

We will always be temped to say "website" even when we are talking about an webapp.... Face it, 90% of web users don't know the difference!
For me, a website is something like a kitchen robot, hardcoded to take a series of actions, never aware of if the user has inserted the correct ingredients or amounts...
A webApp is a Master-Chef, capable of taking a simple search term or request, like " I feel like tacos" and present you with the recipe, and even help you along the way of preparing it.

@alwaysbusy has done a tremendous work with its framework, and I can understand why he doesn't want to mix a robot with a master-chef...
But who knows, maybe someone can pick up the basic guide lines of the frame work and build upon, creating a robot-chef (?)

 

[Roberto P.]

I feel you guys but I think a lot of you want to use ABMaterial to design websites, not webapps. And it is not made for this. If you want to build websites there are literally thousands of programs/online builders that will allow you to make what you want. (e.g. like the site demonstated in the post above).

ABMaterial was build to make great interfaces for B4J apps. Using all the power of B4X and having a nice interface that works on all devices..

I agree with you alwaysbusy. I think AB Material is a great idea and has great potential.

I have to give you this constructive feedback:
I made a prototype of App with standard interface and showed it to users and friends who have asked to improve graphical interface. Everyone expects a User Friendly Interface Design as apps developed with html 5

I hope it is useful feedback.

Well the tool, can simplify development.
Thank you.

 

[Harris]

I agree with you alwaysbusy. I think AB Material is a great idea and has great potential.

I have to give you this constructive feedback:
I made a prototype of App with standard interface and showed it to users and friends who have asked to improve graphical interface. Everyone expects a User Friendly Interface Design as apps developed with html 5

I hope it is useful feedback.

Well the tool, can simplify development.
Thank you.

Hummm,

"made a prototype of App with standard interface" - in ABM?

What type of improved graphical interface are your users and friends speaking of? Material Design is supposed to be the Most Improved design today...
Do you have examples of what they mean?

Friendly, consistent, looks great, responsive, many components available...
All my friends and users thought that ABM was the best design they have used and seen.
Frankly, I (for one) could not develop anything close to what ABM does - in any or all languages - nor would I want to. I can't keep up with "all that jazz". I tried too, but sucked miserably.

Thank our good fortune to have B4J and ABM that solve our webapp (and / or website) miseries. NO other environment can develop the back end - where the work gets done (I have tried many).

I suppose we could use any old designer for the up front / landing site... Most make a mess out of the code generated - HTML5, js and such. However they are just static pages. Hire someone to do this for you (they are very inexpensive). They You (and me) won't have to deal with this - much better things to do (and learn).

Thanks

 

[alwaysbusy]

"made a prototype of App with standard interface - in ABM?"

I think it is the opposite. The prototype was not using ABM and everyone expects the interface to be made with something like ABM

 

[Harris]

Yes, that would seem more like it.
Thanks

 

[Roberto P.]

Hummm,

"made a prototype of App with standard interface" - in ABM?

What type of improved graphical interface are your users and friends speaking of? Material Design is supposed to be the Most Improved design today...
Do you have examples of what they mean?

Friendly, consistent, looks great, responsive, many components available...
All my friends and users thought that ABM was the best design they have used and seen.
Frankly, I (for one) could not develop anything close to what ABM does - in any or all languages - nor would I want to. I can't keep up with "all that jazz". I tried too, but sucked miserably.

Thank our good fortune to have B4J and ABM that solve our webapp (and / or website) miseries. NO other environment can develop the back end - where the work gets done (I have tried many).

I suppose we could use any old designer for the up front / landing site... Most make a mess out of the code generated - HTML5, js and such. However they are just static pages. Hire someone to do this for you (they are very inexpensive). They You (and me) won't have to deal with this - much better things to do (and learn).

Thanks

Hi Harris
with what interface I should have done the prototype?

I repeat that I believe in the potential of ABM Material and it's a good solution for developing web-app. But users are very demanding and sensitive to user interface. We work for users and not for ourselves!

I think you should improve the layout of the grid.

Here is an example of excellent grid that also use apps in Android web-view: http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/grid/index

Thanks and good job

 

[alwaysbusy]

But ABMaterial is meant to be free so you cannot expect it to have controls as kendo-ui where a whole team works on and costs over 1000$

 

[Roberto P.]

But ABMaterial is meant to be free so you cannot expect it to have controls as kendo-ui where a whole team works on and costs over 1000$

Of course it was just an example to show what I mean.

Maybe you can find an open source grid that comes close to these features, such as the Calendar control that you added to ABMaterial

 

[Cableguy]

I'm sorry to disagree with you Roberto.

The implemented grid in ABMaterial is as versatile as it can be.
It's our lack of design knowledge that keeps us from using it to full...

 

[Roberto P.]

I'm sorry to disagree with you Roberto.

The implemented grid in ABMaterial is as versatile as it can be.
It's our lack of design knowledge that keeps us from using it to full...

no problem Cableguy,

I think it should not be necessary to know to modify or improve the components to use them. And 'the component that should have the basic user friendly features.

Best regards

 

[Harris]

Hi Harris
with what interface I should have done the prototype?

I repeat that I believe in the potential of ABM Material and it's a good solution for developing web-app. But users are very demanding and sensitive to user interface. We work for users and not for ourselves!

I think you should improve the layout of the grid.

Here is an example of excellent grid that also use apps in Android web-view: http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/grid/index

Thanks and good job

Very nice framework! They have done a great job with a HTML5 & JS product, leveraging JQuery.
Little wonder they demand such a price - they have to pay their team of developers.
This is great for those devs in bigger companies, with great knowledge (formally educated) in these environments.

Our team consists of Alwaysbusy (self-proclaimed code monkey and CEO of ABM), Erel ( CEO - B4X ), and us (community) - the development support team.
What does this (B4J and ABM) cost us? Some time but very little money (free is closer to the amount).

I am sure if alwaysbusy didn't have a day job and could afford to hire a team of developers; he would love to create and provide a solution like kendo - ABM style that works with B4J. Then they could charge - and I would gladly pay for such.

But for now, we are able to create what is needed for our projects without the extra (nice to have) bells and whistles. Based on improvements so far with our help, the framework will grow feature rich in time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

No one discounts your - or any other ones suggestions.
It's great to have points of view and meaningful dialog.
They are fodder for the creativity of Erel and AB...

 

[Roberto P.]

Very nice framework! They have done a great job with a HTML5 & JS product, leveraging JQuery.
Little wonder they demand such a price - they have to pay their team of developers.
This is great for those devs in bigger companies, with great knowledge (formally educated) in these environments.

Our team consists of Alwaysbusy (self-proclaimed code monkey and CEO of ABM), Erel ( CEO - B4X ), and us (community) - the development support team.
What does this (B4J and ABM) cost us? Some time but very little money (free is closer to the amount).

I am sure if alwaysbusy didn't have a day job and could afford to hire a team of developers; he would love to create and provide a solution like kendo - ABM style that works with B4J. Then they could charge - and I would gladly pay for such.

But for now, we are able to create what is needed for our projects without the extra (nice to have) bells and whistles. Based on improvements so far with our help, the framework will grow feature rich in time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

No one discounts your - or any other ones suggestions.
It's great to have points of view and meaningful dialog.
They are fodder for the creativity of Erel and AB...

Hi Harris
I agree your point of view.
I repeat that I have given an opinion as a positive incentive to improve this beautiful framework to make applications that customers are willing to pay.
I am also willing to contribute to improve even more AB.