Other Promoting B4J - What do you think?

[Erel]

While there are many programming language available today, including free tools, there aren't many quality RAD (rapid application development) tools.
As I see it, B4J, especially after the latest update which adds an internal designer, is a good candidate to to be a very popular programming language / tool. I think of it as a modern VB6. A tool to get the job done.
It can also be a good choice for teaching programming.

How can we better promote B4J? What do you think?

 

[Roycefer]

As a side note, converting the B4X IDEs from .NET to Java would have the added benefit of getting you closer to having a version of B4A that runs on Android. As Android matures and Android computers get more powerful, being able to develop for Android on Android will become more desirable. As far as I know, there is currently only one Java/C++ IDE with a UI designer that runs on Android that can generate an apk: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui&hl=en. With its own powerful Visual Designer, I think B4A would be very competitive in the "for Android, on Android" development market.

Take note of how AIDE advertises the fact that AIDE is developed with AIDE.

 

[EnriqueGonzalez]

it is funny how this post became an extension of the Wish and Bugs sub forum...

well some recomendations would be:

1.- add ads or even add more ads (if you are already promoting this way) because when i begin to look for solutions for android, yours never appeared in any banner! i received a lot from xamarin and visual studio and some others...

Actually it was funny how i found Anywhere Softwere, it was because of a forum where everybody was attacking Delphi and embarcadero, some user mentioned (it was not a very positive comment by the way) B4A, i decided to look and here i am!! lovin it!

2.- Become more social? before buying i look for the words: Anywhere software, Erel, B4A, etc. I remember one interview with tech magazine and that was all no more social appearence!! i remember a company, i think it is remobjects, who´s CTO were all over the internet solving problems and talking about their products, but literally, everywhere.

2.1 be in Wikipedia, Github and any other social-knowledge communty, i have ever wonder why the libraries you release (of course not all) are not in github, may be doing some libraries and let other people improve it this way, the more it extends beyond the B4x.com webpage, the more results will fill the google search page.

3.- force the users to use it? in the trial version of B4A you could bundle B4J with several examples of point and click! Be more aggresive?? for example 3 mins to setup B4A (instead of the 5 seconds it takes now) with images of what B4J could do. in other words, becoming evil???

4.- Making some charts where: why B4J is better than visual studio or xamarin? (this kind of charts are very attractive to the search engines) people love to compare, they always feel smarter if you present choices instead of solutions.

5.- Newsletter with information of the Advancements of B4J and what other users are doing with it, this newslatter could go to the people that registered for the B4A trial.

6.- i do not know the effects of this idea, may be i already consumed to much coca cola, but i have seen some post where you upload a B4J App on the internet (like the jsontree). may be offering a host B4J-ready to install apps, use of databases etc. etc. would attract people. imagine! Host your push server for android and ios for as low as $1.99 month! that would be engaging.

 

[LucaMs]

The focus is not what is the best way to demonstrate the potential of B4J, but how to make it known. [P.S. I'm not referring to your post, @Enrique Gonzalez R, of course ]

I am absolutely certain that advertising has at least 50% of importance in the spread of a product (regardless of the nature of it, sw or other).
However, as with all things, you can make wrong the way to do advertising.

These arguments would require a specific forum.

 

[LucaMs]

may be i already consumed to much coca cola

 

[EnriqueGonzalez]

The focus is not what is the best way to demonstrate the potential of B4J, but how to make it known. [P.S. I'm not referring to your post, @Enrique Gonzalez R, of course ]
These arguments would require a specific forum.

ja.. i get that it was not too related,

 

[LucaMs]

However, as with all things, you can make wrong the way to do advertising.

A clarification: I meant to say: "where to advertise," not how (what texts / images to use)

Excuse my bad example, but if I want to sell a product for blind people, I would prefer the radio rather than television.

 

[LucaMs]

ja.. i get that it was not too related,

I was writing while your post was already published, I had not read it

 

[sorex]

@Squiffy : actually you can write large applications in javascript as it is also a server-side language on IIS just like asp/php.

but as front-end combined with jquery you can do some nifty stuff.
At work I have projects where I have more client-side javascript code than server-side due to all the required rules in that project.

but you are right, there are too much different frameworks and you can't know them all but in my case all I needed so far is javascript/jquery/jquery-cookie the rest I write myself.

 

[dilettante]

While there are many programming language available today, including free tools, there aren't many quality RAD (rapid application development) tools.
As I see it, B4J, especially after the latest update which adds an internal designer, is a good candidate to to be a very popular programming language / tool. I think of it as a modern VB6. A tool to get the job done.
It can also be a good choice for teaching programming.

How can we better promote B4J? What do you think?

What sort of market do you have in mind? Setting aside the more sophisticated users... VB was a popular tool for students and hobbyists, Office VBA macro writers, and a vast range of self-trained "vocational coders" programming under the radar on the job.

One thing that may limit B4J from taking off with that market segment is the effort required to get it working. In some cases anything requiring installer elevation will be a non-starter. Having to go on a wumpus hunt through Oracle's site to find the right pieces and parts of Java then downloading and installing them may also be a disincentive. Then you have the issue of trying to figure out what (non-core) B4J libraries ought to be used for a given project, finding them, dowloading and installing them, and figuring out how to use them. And once you get there, you have to service all of this software (deal with updates gracefully).

People here may sneer at that, but everyone starts without experience. For that matter many existing casual B4J programmers may dread updates for the same reasons.

Any of those issues that can be eliminated, minimized, or eased would smooth the path to broader adoption. This should help increase word-of-mouth promotion too: success breeds enthusiasm.

 

[tchart]

Erel, I am so grateful for this tool. I know C++, C#, Python etc but am always most comfortable writing in basic. I find B4J is great for rapid development and it isnt a 1GB install with loads of dependencies.

Just the other day I wrote a parser for an INFORMIX database trace file. It took me around an hour to write something that would parse the logs and put the results into SQLite in order for me to write some reports. I don't believe I could have done it that quickly in .Net or Python.

I used to be involved in Coder Dojo which teaches kids coding skills. They try to be technology agnostic but I might chat to my friends there and see what they make of B4J.

 

[LWGShane]

Two things that I think would make B4J really take off:

1) Native JavaFX Themes: Include these themes and have B4J do the leg work of detecting an OS and applying the appropriate theme. But, there should be optional classes. (I.E "Application.Theme.Apply("Theme")")

2) jWrapper alternative built-in: jWrapper is a tool that allows the creation of native wrappers for multiple platforms regardless of the originating platform. (Ex: Mac .app on Windows.) Your recent UI Apps bundler is a step in the right direction, but the downfall is that you have to bundle per-platform. The built in alternative should also handle JRE bundling.

These two combined would make B4J one hell of a competitor.

 

[KitCarlson]

I think promoting B4J is a good idea. The more users the merrier. The larger user group, will naturally help define enhancement of features meeting requirements.

I work mainly with embedded systems, but use tablets and PC apps for GUI needs. I used VB6 for the PC apps more than a decade ago, and was obsolete then. I never felt comfortable with .net, seemed to be a broke version, and updates lack compatibility. B4J is in my plan to go forward with better GUI and data analysis apps.

I am not alone, there are many that develop with embedded systems that need apps in the development process for testing, evaluation and GUI. I see users both big and small. People that like to get things done, will use B4J, turning ideas quickly into usable apps. The microsoft way, turns programming into a career, requiring maintenance of existing code. Life is too short, we need B4X.

 

[LucaMs]

I like your answers and the compliments to B4J but the question is how to promoting b4j (I should write where to promoting, because this is the only question, I think).

Drink Coca-Cola (It has no competitors, apart from the Pepsi, yet it bombards us with advertising).

BTW that drink is the best detergent for floors I've ever bought

 

[Roycefer]

Get a celebrity spokesperson: http://www.vogue.com/5901125/hour-of-code-karlie-kloss/

 

[EnriqueGonzalez]

+1 to hiring a super model!

 

[sorex]

that would cost a lot but it's a free product. Hard to get that back unless they jump onto B4A/B4I later.

 

[sorex]

just had a look at the product pages.

there's not much detailed info about the product itself.

it's more like an install guide.

Maybe you should put that behind a link and list the product features instead like

code module support
classes support
intellisence/autocompletion
build types
conditionanl compilation
...

Now it apears like something simple with lack of the above.

I also mis links to apps made with the products.

User quotes belong there too, after reading those I went to the chat to ask the people there and back then @NJDude & @HotShoe convinced me how good the product was and also with their expertize when I was stuck at a first try out of B4A.

 

[little3399]

B4J WEB APP running seem to be slower than ASP.NET ?

 

[Squiffy]

FWIW, here's my 2c.
Look at what "competitors" do. I put that in quotes because they all do something slightly differently but they are playing in the same sand pit. There are cross platform products like Xojo which cost hundreds of dollars depending on the features you buy and have been going for 20 years or so. There are products like Instant Developer, Alpha Software and Genexus which offer complete development environments rather than a language per se and all charge thousands of dollars, and you have products like Lazarus which are free.

All of the paid ones have slick websites and good search rankings. The problem with B4X (& Lazarus) is that their web pages look like they were built by a techie, and they both give the impression of requiring technical effort to get running whereas the others all give the impression that absolutely anyone can use them. Doesn't matter if that impression is wrong. The visitor will make their mind up in 5 seconds as to whether they'll even click beyond the landing page.

There's no point driving huge numbers of clicks to a site that offers nothing to grab the attention. There's a reason good websites cost; they requires expertise to build. You need to give people a reason to click around. Lead them by the hand and show what can really be done across a broad range of subjects. Pictures. Videos. Simple language. And not just install instructions.

How did I find B4J? I was reading a forum where some guy was slagging off another product and he said he was now using this. He listed some of its features and I thought I'd give it a go. Nearly didn't, but so glad I did. I continually search for things like this but not once did I come across it using Google.

 

[RandomCoder]

just had a look at the product pages.

there's not much detailed info about the product itself.

it's more like an install guide.

Maybe you should put that behind a link and list the product features instead like

code module support
classes support
intellisence/autocompletion
build types
conditionanl compilation
...

Now it apears like something simple with lack of the above.

I also mis links to apps made with the products.

User quotes belong there too, after reading those I went to the chat to ask the people there and back then @NJDude & @HotShoe convinced me how good the product was and also with their expertize when I was stuck at a first try out of B4A.

Don't forget pictures. Throw in plenty of screen shots and ideally show some nice looking front ends created with B4J. People are often lazy, they don't want to invest time reading through all the literature when making a first descision, they'll first look at the product from a distance before you draw them into what is actually conatained within. Of course this is only my two cents!