Other Promoting B4J - What do you think?

[Erel]

While there are many programming language available today, including free tools, there aren't many quality RAD (rapid application development) tools.
As I see it, B4J, especially after the latest update which adds an internal designer, is a good candidate to to be a very popular programming language / tool. I think of it as a modern VB6. A tool to get the job done.
It can also be a good choice for teaching programming.

How can we better promote B4J? What do you think?

 

[sorex]

found another notification from a week ago > https://www.macnn.com/articles/15/08/17/new.ide.aimed.visual.basic.net.coders.129991/

 

[Squiffy]

Any link? Couldn't find the article at their website despite using their search function....

Ah - it's the same link as Imbault gave :

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2015/08/18/b4j-classic-visual-basic-6.aspx

I just got it in a Code project daily email.

 

[EnriqueGonzalez]

one of the comments in that link is a little to funny or to spammy

"I decided to have a look at this. Went to the web site and downloaded their "full installation" routine. Did not run on my system (Win 8.1). Furthermore I tried to delete the installation file. System would not allow me to delete it even after a restart. The file appeared to exist but the system would *not* even let me get a file "properties" report on it. It took a system restore (fortunately I had one from last night). This may have been a virus. Be warned."

who knows what that user downloaded.

 

[imbault]

one of the comments in that link is a little to funny or to spammy



who knows what that user downloaded.

I just saw that, anyway, not a very good comment from this guy, @Erel should answer...or us?

 

[giovit]

I suggest a better documentation, more organized information in the forum and easier way to install it. With a snippet or a short program for each function and/or keyword that you can copy from the help file and paste to IDE. That's is a good way to feel comfortable at first impression with a programming language

 

[ilan]

When i go to a website that offers developing tools the first thing i am looking for is the "showcase" button. because i want to see what people have done with this tool and as much complicated the app/game that was made with it as much interesting it is for me.

I would suggest you to add a showcase trailer of apps like construct have on their site or buildbox... and put it on the first page of b4x.

Add it also to youtube and the more traffic you will get the more people will try it.

But it should be made well... there are lot of great apps and games made with b4a but i have not seen lot of b4j apps. So you may also use b4a apps in that trailer and make it clear that there is a relation between all 3 products. Maybe a mixed trailer of b4a/b4i/b4j (in hollywood style... )

 

[Squiffy]

You asked for comments on raising the profile of B4J, but I'd improve the prospective user's experience before you drive huge traffic to the site and potentially waste it.

My evaluation issues have been around unclear sample code and sample projects that don't work out of the box. People won't give you much evaluation time and will look to samples. I may just have been unlucky, and all your others may work perfectly.

A specific example is my unanswered question on using the "loginserver" sample project. It says down the very bottom of that project that two extra libraries are required but I cannot download them. The web page says I do not have permission. They appear to be part of a product I have to pay for. A sample project for a free product requiring things I have to pay for does not help a new user without either making it clear that that is the situation or explaining what to do if it's not. It's not the first time that question has been asked on the forum - the other one is as yet unanswered, too.

I've picked on one thing, but I'm sure if I or others were to look there'd be more. Documentation is a huge task, I know. But I think it makes the difference between something I'd pay for or not. I'm patient and persistent as I see the potential, but people in general make snap decisions and many a good idea has been lost to the big boys because people are put off at the early stages.

I know it's free (at the moment), but people will still evaluate it using their precious time.

I'm only writing all this because I want to love it. I think it's brilliant but damn, I need documentation, working samples or at least faster answers on the forum Others will, too.

 

[Squiffy]

THE SECOND I wrote this you replied to my libraries question
My point still stand though - you need to make it clear to prospective users that they cannot evaluate your sample projects on a free product without buying an unrelated (in the user's mind) product.

 

[sorex]

They appear to be part of a product I have to pay for.

That's a shame, but look at all other languages... a lot of additional stuff costs money aswell.
I don't know that post so I can't judge on that.

at least faster answers on the forum

a lot of us deliver answers within minutes tho (when we're online)

 

[ilan]

I agree with sorex, your question was asked yesterday and answered today so this is not so bad. (Normally it goes faster...)

 

[Squiffy]

@sorex -
re paid extras - yes of course, and I will probably purchase B4A just for the access to some of the libraries I need in for B4J. The point is, it's not clear for evaluators whether the evaluator sees it as an issue or not.

@sorex & @ ilian -
re answers - yes I know. I was being a little harsh as there was another unanswered question in the forum on the same point. The impression it gave me (and WILl give to others) is that it was being avoided.

We're talking about profile/marketing/impressions here - the majority of people who look once and never come back will be silent, and Erel will learn nothing from them. Like it or not, I'm sticking around and if he asks for advice, I'll offer it. It won't always make comfortable reading but they will be my opinions and I'll bet a strawberry fondant that there's be others who think the same - you just may never hear from them.

 

[Erel]

Just to avoid confusion, B4J libraries are available for free.

A few examples / tutorials (there are about 100 tutorials) depend on B4A libraries. Only these libraries require a license.

was being a little harsh as there was another unanswered question in the forum on the same point.

I don't see any recent B4J question that wasn't answered in 12 hours. We are all in different time zones. Don't expect all your questions to be answered immediately.
Note that some questions are not answered at all. This is a community forum.

 

[sorex]

critics are fine but pointing to one unanswered post is a bit low when you see how many new posts there are daily and answered (and maybe solution provided aswell)

but indeed, I like to see my questions answered aswell. that's normal.

just look at how many forums you are registered and see how many were as helpfull as this one, on most of them you simply don't get an answer if you are a beginner.

or the forum is just there because it's a trend but barely noone is using it which lead to a dead end for beginners aswell.

you still have the chat if you are impatient or want a more direct contacting method to discuss something.

here's an example from last night and the person got his solution within 10 minutes aswell.

(20:23:41) (Bead): hey
(20:23:47) (merlin2049er): whats up
(20:24:19) (Bead): Struggling with something that I believe should be simple -_-'
(20:24:28) (merlin2049er): which is
(20:24:37) (Bead): trying to minus one from a hex string. So for example turn a string of "4C" to "4B"
(20:24:57) (merlin2049er): oh
(20:25:10) (merlin2049er): can u do that in integer, then convert to hex
(20:26:09) (Bead): I've no idea how to :S
(20:26:25) (merlin2049er): oh can't be that hard
(20:26:35) (merlin2049er): i wrote some int to hex functions
(20:27:01) (merlin2049er): might even have some built in functions
(20:27:15) (Bead): hmm, maybe this intValue = Bit.ParseInt(hex, 16);
(20:27:26) (merlin2049er): yeah
(20:27:43) (merlin2049er): then subtract 1 from it
(20:27:48) (merlin2049er): and convert it back
(20:27:55) (Bead): but then how would I get it back to a hex string again?
(20:28:13) (merlin2049er): hextoint
(20:28:17) (merlin2049er): int to hex
(20:29:22) (Bead): ?
(20:30:27) (Bead): Bit.ToHexString(intvalue)
(20:30:52) (merlin2049er): yup
(20:30:56) (merlin2049er): looks right
(20:31:01) (Bead): lemme give it a bash
(20:31:06) (merlin2049er): ok
(20:32:56) (Bead): Yay! It works! Thanks for the help :)

 

[Squiffy]

I hope you can see what I'm driving at here. My point is not a complaint. It's to highlight how newcomers might feel with the experience. I know you asked for comments on raising your profile, and my point/opinion as an evaluator myself is that doing so without improving the experience would potentially waste clicks. You don't have to agree with me.

Pointing to a post that was relevant to my problem is not low - it was my experience. All I'm saying is most people will never say why they don't use a product. I'm offering an opinion as to why some might do that.

It's just an opinion, which is was what was broadly asked for.

(ps - I can't log on to the chat).

 

[sorex]

no problem, Squiffy. We're all doing our best to help out Erel.

(ps - I can't log on to the chat).

no need to enter a password unless you want to protect your nickname from using by someone else. (then you need to ask @HotShoe to create that account)

 

[Squiffy]

@sorex
me too. I'm not good enough to answer tech. questions yet. Marketing I'm slightly better at
I like the product and I'd like it to be around long enough for me to do some good work in it. It stands more of a chance of that if Erel earns good money from it through increased awareness and consequential sales (he should charge).

As for the chat - a perfect case in point in my experience, as it didn't occur to me to not enter a password and nothing on that page clearly suggests otherwise. Had I not mentioned it here I would have assumed forever that it was closed off to me. A problem that others would have experienced I'm sure (at least I hope, else it proves I'm particularly thick!).

Anyway, I'll stop now

 

[sorex]

that password "issue" has been described in the chat thread before but most people just read the first post and click the link

maybe @HotShoe can add a text there that it is not needed to enter a password unless you have an account.

 

[Squiffy]

That kind of highlights my point. I didn't look in any threads, I just clicked a link called "chat room". Others probably did the same. Nothing on the landing page of the chat instructs you.

Now you can call me thick and lazy of you like - many do, quite justifiably so I expect - but does that privilege outweigh leading a newbie by the hand a bit?

Anyway, my apologies - this thread is getting bogged down my me. I've said my bit. I really will stop now, promise

 

[Erel]

I just saw that, anyway, not a very good comment from this guy, @Erel should answer...or us?

My guess that this is not a 100% innocent post. Anyway I did respond. You are of course welcomed to reply there as well

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2015/08/18/b4j-classic-visual-basic-6.aspx (post about a virus).

 

[Daestrum]

In the good old days when I started programming (mid 70's) , you just sent a copy to pc magazines and hoped to get included on their cover discs.
Not sure if cover discs still exist, but if they do, it's a quick way to get lots of people to see and try the program.